Posts by La Capra

26

Would you have accepted THIS response from the Watchtower. Re: U.N

by integ in

dear brothers,

it has been brought to our attention that certain brothers have had questions regarding the societies' membership as a non governmental organization with the united nations from 1991-2001. rest assured that we are no longer members, having removed ourselves from this organization over 3 years ago.

it was only in our undaunted zeal to proclaim the good news to "all nations" (as was jesus' admonition), in these critical last days, that the faithful slave class approved membership as an ngo.

La Capra

There is a very logical explanation about why the WTBTS will never admit to a mistake, and ask for forgiveness from its followers. That reason is the whole disfellowshipping /disassociation/shunning doctrine that is part and parcel to the entire existence of this cult. Here is a section of the "announcement" with a different "error" inserted, and from a follower rather than the leadership.

Dear Elder Body,

It has been brought to my attention that certain brothers have had questions regarding my blood transfusion during surgery after a nearly fatal window-washing accident. Rest assured that I NO LONGER consume blood. It was only in my undaunted zeal to proclaim the good news to "All Nations" (as was Jesus' admonition), in these critical last days, that I allowed myself to receive this life saving treatment. It is regrettable that some have been stumbled by this treatment, likening it to desecrating the life force itself. This is NOT THE CASE! Being as I am, an imperfect human, I may have made an error in my thinking on the matter. It was my only hope that this life saving medical treatment might show the nations, and their governments, that Jehovahs Organization is not a harmful 'cult' as false media reports have caused some to believe, but that we are a loving organization with only positive motives. Again, in my zealousness to further the Kingdom preaching work I mistakenly had hoped to extend my life so that I could continue our life saving work. We do well to remember that Jesus was the only perfect person to walk the earth, and as well meaning as we may have been in this matter to expand the work He commissioned, we are confident that our merciful God Jehovah, who sees "all things', would take note of our intentions, and forgive us our "mistakes". It is my hope that this will satisfy any further inquiries into this matter, and that we may move forward in the ministry in glorious praise to our Heavenly Father.

Your Brother,

This is the kind of thing that could easily be used against them in a way that would cause them to lose all control over their masses. It is the real reason they will go so far as to admit that that humans are imperfect and make mistakes, but never as far as admitting an actual mistake.

Shoshana

12

Text from Ex, she has met some nice JW's and needs some advice. (must read)

by AlanB in

i had a text message from an ex last week, she wanted to meet to discuss some jw's she had met that were really nice people but wanted some advice.

so the other night i drove over to a town in the north west of england to meet her and a really bizarre story unfolded.

we shall call our heroine julie who has recently moved into a new house along with her two children who we shall call janet and john, both children are in their early teens, julie is mid 30's.

La Capra

From Bill's perspective two studies have already been started!!!!! All the time the B's spend with the J's is now being counted on a time card. This is one additional fact of which Julie should be made aware. To a certain extent, she is just a number to the B's, and since Ben has a crush, the time he counts on her "sort of" legitimizes his feelings. If they were really above board about it they would be sending over a "nice pioneer sister" or "mature elder's wife" and avoiding conversations with Julie entirely. Instead they turn the business (really, how often do people get their windows cleaned in Britain-here in California it's once or twice a year!) relationship into a quasi-social (informal -brainwashing) one to Julie and a quasi-spiritual one for them (let the rationalizations and compartmentalizations begin). If it weren't their own business they would have been sacked.

Shoshana

40

Fired for eating pork........

by closer2fine in

jw
friends

orlando, fla. -- a central florida woman was fired from her job after eating "unclean" meat and violating a reported company policy that pork and pork products are not permissible on company premises, according to local 6 news.

" holfeld asked.

"we do, we can," kweli said.

La Capra

I just got back from the Giants game (Sorry Cubs-you should have actually pitched to Bonds, he got a homerun because you walked him...) and got to read everyone's thoughts on this issue. During the day, I remembered that this year Paul McCartney went on a "meat banned" tour in which none of the workers were allowed to eat meat or wear leather while they were working on his tour (in Europe, not USA, but in some of the countries that is irrelevant-they have similar religious/political freedoms as USA). I haven't heard that anyone has sued him yet.

Anyway-

What I guess I was trying to say earlier, that didn't come out so clear is what the 6th Circuit said in Smith v. Pyro Mining Co. (1987) (when one can't be eloquent herself, rely on the circuit judges):

"A prima facie case of religious discrimination under Title VII is made by a plaintiff showing:

1) That he holds a sincere religious belief that conflicts with an employment requirement;"

(This employee held no sincere religious belief that required her to eat pork at work)

"2) That he has informed the employer about the conflicts; and,

3) That he was discharged or disciplined for failing to comply with the conflicting employment requirement."

And in this case, Pedreira v. Ky. Baptist Homes for Children, Inc., (2001) 186 F. Supp. 2d. 757,

"The civil rights statutes protect religious freedom, not personal lifestyle choices. There is no religious discrimination in an employment policy which does not require and does not inhibit the practice of or belief in any faith. "

Again, I'd reiterate, that this former employee was not inhibited from practicing her sincerely held religious beliefs because she had no sincerely held relgious beliefs requiring her to eat pork at work. The fact that she only ate it only twice during her ten month tenure at that job tends to indicate that her interests (religious or otherwise) in eating pork at work are slight in the first place.

Because she does not meet the first element of the prima facie case, it shouldn't move forward.

And Avi- you might have called it, I don't blame you for your idea, it was a good one (go for the bias-always good to discredit an opposite view with bias). I don't feel strongly about this because of my relgious beliefs. I couldn't care less about pork-free job sites. My bias is this: I am in the middle of working on the topic of workplace discrimination because of a research assignment due next week, so I have been reading a lot about what is necessary to make the various complaints for the different types of workplace discrimination. What I have discovered is that it is incredibly difficult to make most of them stick. I feel strongly that this plaintiff has another agenda beside her sincerely held religious beliefs, perhaps her own discriminatory beliefs.

I know it sounds outrageous, I think it was ridiculous (my own bias against extreme fundamental religions in general). But I also don't think this woman has a legal leg to stand on, and for her attorney to imply that this is landmark (or groundbreaking) shows he did not do his research (about the law, and whether his client was religiously bound to eat pork for lunch) before running his mouth to the press. As we joke in the law office I work in "Sanctions!"

Again I cut my legal teeth on this board....Let me know if I'm overruled by the court.

Shoshana

40

Fired for eating pork........

by closer2fine in

jw
friends

orlando, fla. -- a central florida woman was fired from her job after eating "unclean" meat and violating a reported company policy that pork and pork products are not permissible on company premises, according to local 6 news.

" holfeld asked.

"we do, we can," kweli said.

La Capra

(double post-that's never happened to me before ().

40

Fired for eating pork........

by closer2fine in

jw
friends

orlando, fla. -- a central florida woman was fired from her job after eating "unclean" meat and violating a reported company policy that pork and pork products are not permissible on company premises, according to local 6 news.

" holfeld asked.

"we do, we can," kweli said.

La Capra

This is a disgusting case. This woman was not being discriminated because of her religion-she's Catholic- or her lack of being Muslim. I am not an expert on the Catholic religion, but I do tend to remember little quirks I hear about religions. I have never heard of any Caholic requirement that requires that one eat pork products while at work.

I have a genuine issue with an individual, who after receiving a warning, along with an explanation, continues to disrespect the wishes of her employer. How much of a hardship, really, was it for her to have made a turkey sandwich for lunch rather than frying up the bacon and making the BLT.

While I respect the notion of standing up for an issue, here was an employer, who genuinely wanted to bring glory to his version of god in everything he did. What he was asking was not all that discriminatory against this employee. Had he demanded that all his employees refrain from eating pork ALL the time, or stop several times a day, to face Mecca, and pray to Allah, I would be singing a different tune.

It sounds to me that this plaintiff created her own tort here. That doesn't sit well with me, and I don't repect the attorney who took this case (I wouldn't be surprised if this attorney was on board BEFORE the BLT). I hope this disappears in summary judgment.

Shoshana

50

August 15th WT - Eliminate your unnecessary hobbies and projects

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

the third study article in the august 15th wt is entitled "tired, but not tiring out.".

it is of interest that the borg are further reducing the quality of life for their members by the following paragraph (pg 24, para 11).

sometimes what complicates our lives is, not the pursuit of more things, but what we do with the things we already have.. some may experience emotional fatigue as a result of challenging health problems, the loss of loved ones, or other.

La Capra

Most normal folks, when packing up the equipment and items for a hobby they are abandoning, contemplate giving those items to charity. What I noticed was that the article said those items were simply put out of sight, not donated. Since WBTS does not participate in social charity, it cannot recommend that these items be donated, to its own (nonexistent) charity forum, nor can it suggest a donation to another cause (since these are worldly, and often a part of Christendom). This glaring omission speaks volumes.

Nor did the article suggest that these items be sold, like at a garage or yard sale, or a flea market, or boot sale, or online auction Why? This would take a lot of time, planning and energy, which then could not be sucked by WBTS. It could subject an unwitting JW to bad associations, and possibly new, even more time/money consuming hobbies (some people spend their entire weekends going to sales and flea markets, and love it!), or in the case of an online auction, a JW may accidentally wander onto an apostate site, sell to an apostate, or buy more junk than they sell.

Must admit, though, WBTS missed an opportunity to get some cash. They could have urged the rank and file to sell all their hobby related items and to give WBTS the proceeds AND the extra time they would have, now that they have abandoned their hobbies.

No doubt it was discussed amongst the Bethel Boys and decided that the risk of contamination through selling the items to worldlies (since selling them to another JW would defeat the purpose) was greater than the small benefit there might have been from a brief influx of some garage sale bucks...

Shoshana

39

Do You Realize How Much Being a Witness Has Hindered You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

the truth is------- we have lost out on soooooo much, simply because we were witnesses.

it might b like almost starting all over again, for some of us.

what hits you as to what you could've had or have outrightly lost??

La Capra

For me the biggest hindrance was never feeling safe and secure as a young child. My first memories are of knowing I would never measure up, getting destroyed at armageddon, while my mother pranced through unscathed-almost delighting in my destruction. I never felt carefree as a youngster. I was always worried, on the defensive and ultimately insecure and depressed.

I overcompesate for that now by trying to have everything in my life under my control. On the positive side of that control is that I got a degree and career job right away, bought my first and second houses, and started working on a second degree. However, I've discovered that the more security I get for myself, the more I have to lose, should someone tug a little on the five of spades holding up the roof on my house of cards.

I'd give most of it up to feel normal, and TRULY, internally secure, no matter what happens outside of my control. I am starting to get a grip on this, thanks to a superb ex-witness therapist, and my own willingness to realize that the control must go, that I need to be needy, and to really rely others. It's not instant-oh how I wish it were instant. My fiance would have it a bit easier if it were instant.

Shoshana

3

It's celebration time!

by La Capra in

jw
friends

simon just posted about passing some tests...it's that time of year.

as the "academic" year comes to a close, what sorts of academic achievements can we celebrate and offer congratulations for?.

for many of us growing up, we had to hide our academic achievements (or our children's), and down play our academic interests and goals.

La Capra

Avi-

I am just of a really short attention span these days. I got tired of it. I don't have any other digital pictures of myself. Maybe one of these days that will change.

Shoshana.

3

It's celebration time!

by La Capra in

jw
friends

simon just posted about passing some tests...it's that time of year.

as the "academic" year comes to a close, what sorts of academic achievements can we celebrate and offer congratulations for?.

for many of us growing up, we had to hide our academic achievements (or our children's), and down play our academic interests and goals.

La Capra

Simon just posted about passing some tests...It's that time of year. As the "academic" year comes to a close, what sorts of academic achievements can we celebrate and offer congratulations for?

For many of us growing up, we had to hide our academic achievements (or our children's), and down play our academic interests and goals. But not anymore. Let's brag, celebrate and congratulate.

I'll go second: I'm finishing my second year of law school Thursday night-my last final exam for the year! (Real Property).

Shoshana

24

JW Get-togethers

by Nosferatu in

jw
friends

do you have any good memories of jw get-togethers?

a lot of my good memories of them have tarnished with age.

i vaguely remember them.

La Capra

My dad used to go to some with my mom, even though he wasn't a JW. At one anniversary party, an elder's wife was chatting them up. Since it was an anniversary, the number of years couples had been married was the topic. When my mother answered that they had been married for 20 years (or whatever it was), the shocked elder's wife's reply was "But your oldest, George, is only 17!" My mother was horrified, and my father was pissed. This was the last "witness" event he ever accompanied my mother to.

A few years later, at a potluck at same elder's wife's house, I was in attendance. I have no clue what the occasion was. I was in my mid teens. Elder's wife's oldest daughter was quite fat, very healthy but fat (Elder's wife was pretty fat too). Whenever the daughter tried to get food from the table, her mother would try to take the plate away, or the food off the plate. When that wouldn't work, she would demand that the daughter split the food on the plate with her.

I felt so bad for that girl, I still think of it. I wonder how she turned out. That's the only witness get-together that I have specific memories of. The rest sort of merge together into the same jello salads, napkins on heads, kids have to sit on the floor kind of visual...

At some point my mom stopped letting me hang when the witness kids went out to do things. She would always have some excuse. I know now that the likelihood that I would have gotten into real trouble with them was stronger than if I hung out with my well-heeled worldly friends. I think she actually preferred that, we conjugated verbs in French, and practiced differential equations.

Shoshana